Dragonball Debunk

>Goku killed Majin Buu who is the platonic concept of evil so he is Outerversal.

No he isn't. First off evil is not a platonic concept in the sense of having its own distinct "Form" like the Form of the Good.Instead, in Plato's philosophy, evil is understood as a deviation from the good, stemming from ignorance or a flaw in the soul, and is not an entity with its own existence, [but rather a "privation" or absence of goodness](https://imgur.com/a/Q3EGFJT) —much like darkness is the absence of light.A Platonic concept is perfect, absolute, unchangeable, encompasses all of its particulars and is not dependent on them to sustain itself. I.e all Apples(Particulars) are emanations of the Apple Concept whether it's a green apple,red apple,yellow apple, etc even if all physically existing apples were to be destroyed the concept of an Apple would remain.

And If Majin Buu was a platonic concept Goku and co wouldn't be able to interact with him since platonic concepts are native to a world that sees the mortal world as an emanation of it. [And 1-A beings and worlds are totally innacesible and unreachable by any extensions of the lower worlds and the beings in them by the new tiering system.](https://imgur.com/a/QJ6uMUs )

>The Otherworld transcends dimensionality and has no concept of space and time and Goku and Beerus would have destroyed the macrocosm including the Otherworld wich makes them Outer

Nope. First off the Otherworld is dimensionally transcendent aka it has quantitative superiority over the macrocosm wich means it has +1D to the Macrocosm aka 5D. Dimensionally transcendent means that it’s a higher dimension that transcends the previous, not that it transcends dimensions as a concept.Transcending dimensions" often means a being can exist beyond the familiar dimensions of space and time, such as a higher-dimensional realm, but this is still within a larger dimensional framework. Only by transcending the entire "framework" of all dimensions can a being be considered outerversal.

 All it means is that Otherworld is at least a dimension above the Living World. [Also the manga proves it has time and space thus is bound by them. In chapter 11 it says that legends state that Snake Way is about a milion kilometers. Distance is a form of space so that makes the Otherworld not Outer by defintion.

In the same chapter it also says that Lord Enma has crossed it in the past hundred milion years. So years pass in the Otherworld wich means the concept of time also exists there. So again not Outer.

Also there is a chapter where King Kai tells Goku that he would need 2 days to reach the check in station to be revived. Days passing means time exist in the Otherworld.King Kai directly states 158 days with him is like a few thousand years on earth. If Otherworld was above the concept of space and time and time doesn't exist in Otherworld how can a day pass in Otherworld?

Gravity also exists in Otherworld if Otherworld transcends the concept of space and time gravity can't exist. Since gravity works by something with mass warping space and time. Which obviously can't happen in Otherworld if it lacks the concepts of time and space.](https://imgur.com/a/6A51QxY )

One of the worst argumenta than the afterlife is 1-A is because supposedly Daizenshuu 4 says that it transcends dimensions. To begin with, I would like to say that these people contradict themselves, because they use "dimension" as a synonym for universe at the same time as higher dimension. "Why not have both?"Think.

In any case, [a more accurate translation of the text is simply a supernatural realm imperceptible to mortal eyes. ](https://imgur.com/a/SqfK0tT)

This is obviously in reference to the geographical position of the afterlife above the rest of the universe and how the kaios observe their respective regions of the universe from there. Not that it is a reality superior to infinite higher dimensions, something that does not even exist in Dragon Ball to begin with.

In fact, [although Goku's teleportation has a limited range, he is able to teleport seamlessly from Earth to the planet of kaio,](https://imgur.com/a/EnMMtgu) demonstrating that between the mortal world and the afterlife there are no infinite distances, much less transfinite distances of higher dimensions. Obviously because Earth is closer to the other world than places like Namek, [being in the northern galaxy.](https://imgur.com/a/la-chouzenshuu-actualizada-tambi-n-dice-lo-mismo-chouzenshuu-4-pag-34-zZhXgKS)

Also Goku a being of a lower plane being able to just teleport and access the Afterlife via Instant Transmision is an antifeat since a 1-A realm by the new tiering system [is totally innacesible and unreachable to any and all extensions of the lower structures and their inhabitants.](https://imgur.com/a/Viu95v0 )

The same thing with Kami bringing Goku to Enma to vouch for him to see the North Kaiou.

>By destroying Future Trunk's timeline Zeno destroyed Subspace a realm that has no concept of space and time so that makes Zeno Outer. Also UI Sign Goku and Jiren shook the Null Realm wich has no time and space so that makes them Outer.

Nope. First of all simply existing in some alternate state of existence that lacks time and/or space is not really grounds for any tier in particular, as predating or lacking such things does not translate to being superior to them, and would most often overlap with abilities like Acausality or Nonexistent Physiology. And the same scan that says that Subspace has no concept of space and time [also says that in the Room of Spirit and Time the concept of time is different](https://imgur.com/a/TMDEE3k )

referencing the extreme temporal dilation of the time room. So when they say that these concepts do not exist, they mean that they do not exist in the conventional sense of the term, not absolutely. And the Room of Spirit and Time is part of Subspace so this statement reffers to Subspace as a whole. And lacking space and time doesn't equate to transcending the concepts of space and time. Lacking something doesn't mean you transcend that something.

>Next the world of Void being infinite wich is not. That was a mistranslation. The Japanesse text actually says:

[開催する場所は無の界。

無の界?

時間も空間もない 永遠と虚無だけに満ちた世界だ

The place where it is held, is the Realm of Void.

The Realm of Void?

A world devoid of time and space, filled only with eternity and emptiness.](https://imgur.com/a/aKmfVbS )

So it's not infinite but filled with eternity. Eternity is a measure of infinite/unending time not of size.

And even them the claim that is devoid of time and space mainly the time part is debunked because Hit can use his Time Manipulation abillity there. If time didn't exist there how can Hit use Time Skip and Time Cage there?

You cannot use time manipulation without time existing, because time manipulation is fundamentally the control of time itself. If time does not exist, there is nothing to manipulate, and concepts like "slowing down," "speeding up," or "stopping" time are meaningless.

And the Universe 2 warriors are capable of trapping Goku and the Androids in a black hole like attack. Black holes work by bending time and space. So If the World of Void didn't have either how can a black hole function there?

>Next the claim that Dragonball has MWI.

[They use what a professor says in an article](https://es.dragon-ball-official.com/news/01_708.html)

 along with the words of Future Trunks that supposedly proves that Dragon Ball uses the theory of many worlds. However, the professor only explains how the theory would work in the real world, not the cosmology of the verse.Especially since Dragon Ball does not use that interpretation of quantum mechanics. First because what Trunks said is misrepresented and mistranslated,let me explain:

Subsequent translations of the Kanzenban edition screwed it up when they translated a specific phrase of Trunks' as "many different futures are created by the smallest things", which has been used by many to assume that Dragon Ball follows the interpretation of the many worlds of quantum mechanics (which is quite unlikely from what was explained in Super, but hey).

[In the Spanish version, Trunks says that it seems that different alternative futures can occur; in the English version, that each change in the past creates different futures; and in Japanese, that a small change in the future can create many other futures.](https://imgur.com/a/31E8bf4) As you can see, the original version is the most open to interpretations, but in no case is Trunks claiming that universes are being created by each atomic configuration or similar.

It is also very important to mention that Trunk uses the term "chottoshita" (ちょっとした), which means "small things."Since the context of the conversion is that they are talking about the changes and differences between the two timelines, I am personally more inclined to think that this is the second option and that the fansubs decontextualized the first by translating it wrong.

Second, because it is explicitly confirmed that in [DB there are only 6 timelines, no more no less.](https://imgur.com/a/apOoSQz)

 And third, [because to create new timelines in the verse, you must travel in time by changing the past.](https://imgur.com/a/8tbmeLT )

So obviously there cannot be new timelines created at every quantum moment under such conditions. What's more, [in Dragon Ball it is forbidden to manipulate time to prevent these new worlds from emerging,](https://imgur.com/a/EGBg9UY) which logically would not make much sense in a verse where each moment generates new timelines. That said, there is yet another argument of this kind.

This basically consists of assuming that there must be hundreds of thousands of timelines by the number of lockers in one of which Gowasu kept the time rings. However, these lockers are to store the objects requisitioned by the gods and not just time rings; but when Beerus and Whis want to check how many there are, they simply open the small box where the five are kept.

>The Dragonball universe 7 is infinite

The idea that universe 7 is infinite, is based on certain statements of Daizenshuu 4 and 7. [Let's start with this one.](https://imgur.com/a/daizenshuu-4-pag-16-y-17-MDcWekr) There are many problems with this text. The first is that it is a poetic text that acts as an introduction to the information in the book and should not be taken literally. Without going any further, [in the same introduction it is also said that the deserts of the Earth are infinite.](https://imgur.com/a/daizenshuu-4-pag-23-oiUFNGv)

Similarly, [the same introduction says a few pages ago that the universe is only "vast."](https://imgur.com/a/dainzenshuu-4-pag-12-LpaYBGI)

He also mentions that there are countless alien races in the universe, [something that has been reetconed in both anime and manga.](https://imgur.com/a/f8aDmXT)

 They also use something about the kaios on page 54, [but a more accurate translation is that the universe only expands infinitely](https://imgur.com/a/daizenshuu-4-pag-54-X27FAOf )

 and the Chouzenshuu [changed the text back to just "vast".](https://imgur.com/a/chouzenshuu-1-pag-244-8j4YCCz)

An endlessly expanding universe isn’t the same as an already infinite universe. If it’s still growing, that means it had a smaller size before, which means it wasn’t infinite. You can’t expand something that’s already infinite, because infinity has no boundaries to push. So yeah, if the universe is expanding, it’s not infinite yet, it’s just moving in that direction forever.

Now, [there is an informative statement in Daizenshuu 7 that does state that the universe is infinite](https://imgur.com/a/daizenshuu-7-pag-44-Qf6H1Tg)

 and that [it was not changed in Chouzenshuu.](https://imgur.com/a/chouzenshuu-4-p-gina-47-nFOjLyZ)

However, the guide contradicts itself on the same page, stating that the universe can be divided into cardinal points and 4 equidistant zones, which is incompatible with a supposedly infinite space. So it seems very likely that it is hyperbole.Because in addition, there is tons of evidence that contradicts that universe 7 is infinite. In both manga and anime it has borders, [a center and edge](https://imgur.com/a/Itl9wIr)

a circular design, it is open and they have points of contact with other universes, the kingdom of the kaioshin orbits around it, characters who cross it take variable time to travel it, the guides say that it has marked limits, etc.

Another even more desperate argument is to claim that Bulma was wrong because Jaco got angry and that would prove that she meant that there are infinite galaxies in the universe (?) However, [the official translation says no such thing,](https://imgur.com/a/0AYXljq)

 and for the suspicious, [the Japanese original does not claim that they are infinite either.](https://imgur.com/a/cNmbXjG)

They ended up going to the center of the universe anyway, so... what's the point?

>Goku forced his way into the future with sheer speed so he has Immesurable speed

No that was also a mistranslation. [What the Japanesse text actually says is that [he was just reading ahead a few seconds.](https://imgur.com/a/gQmveiY )

It's a form of precognition not of speed.

> Goku and all fighters should have infinite speed because they moved in the Realm of Void wich has no time and space.

Again as i mentioned from Hit being able to use Time Skip and Time Cage and the Universe 2 warriors being able to use a black hole like attack it does have time and space. And secondly Timeless Voids, i.e. areas within a setting that lack time or exist outside of the flow of time, cannot be used to grant Infinite speed. One might be tempted to apply Speed = Distance/Time and say that time equals 0 in this situation, thus moving through this type of void should result in Infinite speed. However, in a Timeless Void, time does not exist, making Time = Not Applicable.So in short, Time = Nonexistent or Not Applicable and Distance/Time = Undefined and cannot be determined under these conditions.